Hire For Life

Episode with guest: Charlotte Eckley

COO at SRC Logistics

(This episode was recorded in June of 2022.)

Key Episode Take-Aways:

1. It's important for an employer to hold themselves accountable for being able to commit to a new employee for the rest of their lives. (click to jump to this topic below)  Why do I have to be the one that says that it's okay for you to hire a person? When my mind I thought he was the boss, I thought that would be the appropriate thing to do. And he goes, Do you think Great Game is a thriving enough business that we can, you could commit to this person for the rest of their lives, as long as they're doing their job for them and their family? I remember him saying, if we hire them. And I was like, wow, you know, and he goes, if you can do that, you have everything you need Charlotte, you go back and look at your numbers, you have the data to make the same decision that I did.

2. Don't hire on a whim, make sure that you really need that position. (click to jump to this topic below)  ... it definitely makes you pause, and just don't, don't hire on a whim, you know, make sure that you really need that position. That you can't combine two positions, or more than one person could do it. Don't take it lightly, and then it makes you, don't, you know, be the highest paying person in town so that you can afford to keep those employees when things go down. You know?

Continue scrolling to read the full episode transcription.

Announcer 00:00

Welcome to the Change the Game Podcast, where we share stories of open-book management and highlight capitalism at its best.

Kylie Jackson 00:08

Welcome to the, uh, Lolo and Kylie's Attorney at Law. Just kidding, we are doing our little vlog. A chat community chats is what we're calling it.

Charlotte Eckley 00:19

Okay.

Kylie Jackson 00:19

Yeah, yeah. So, on this community chat, our theme really is about the philosophy that we have at SRC. And it's called hiring for life. We're very proud that we haven't done, we haven't had any layoffs since our birth. And we want to talk to our good friend Charlotte. Although you can do a little introduction to Char-latte.

Lauren Haley 00:39

I was lucky enough to work under Char-latte, how we call her, at Great Game of Business for two years. She's now the COO at SRC Logistics. So she's just got a new role over there. Charlotte, would you tell us a little bit about the history of your, your history with src, and The Great Game of Business and your years here?

Charlotte Eckley 00:57

Um, wow, well, that goes back a ways. SRC was my very first job out of college. I started in customer service, and I joined a team, a lot of the rest of them were not out of college. And so I was like, huh, and I didn't know for sure exactly why I was there. But I started doing the job, I'd heard it was a great company to work for. And so I went for it and took the job. As I did that, I was approached later on and and asked if I would become a supervisor of a new mission they wanted to take on and that was Jack stack had a vision to create a new layer of leadership within the company. Before that, there hadn't been a lot of right out of college type of individuals. And so I was given, just right time, right place, unique opportunity to help bring in some of the future leaders of SRC. So we created a sales and marketing department and I hired up to seven to eight people to come and learn the company and learn our products. And I'm proud to say that a lot of those people have been general managers, and in a lot of different positions all over SRC today. So, it was really unique, right? And it was a real vision to really want to look at it and say we need to start educating and creating this layer of people throughout the company. So it's been a really fun, unique journey for me. I left because my husband went back in the Marine Corps. I moved away for a little while in North Carolina. Was able to implement the Great Game in a company out there, because it just, the book hadn't even been written, I just knew what I knew. And I knew that I didn't want to work for a company that didn't share information. And the owner of that company, thought I was a little crazy. But he let me see a few expenses, and that sort of thing. We started growing the company, we put some goals and bonus programs around things, and it was amazing what we did, in about three years there, and how much we grew the company by just sharing information with people. That's all we did. And so anyway, I ended up coming back to Springfield, I end up back at SRC now, and I just think that everything I've ever seen of the companies that I've been involved with it have played the Great Game, it works in every scenario. I haven't found one yet that it doesn't work, if you're truly invested in it. So it's hard not to believe in it, because it is part of who I am. But how do you not believe in something you've seen work every single time? So.

Kylie Jackson 03:16

I think we're talking to the right person this hire for life philosophy, because you've spent your life with us. We've got you for life!

Charlotte Eckley 03:26

I might be a granny here some day, so I don't know.

Kylie Jackson 03:30

You're, you're just like a fairy godmother of us all. I think what's really cool, you wrote a story about the interaction that you had with Jack, many years ago, many years ago. Can you kind of reiterate that story a little bit?

Charlotte Eckley 03:46

Well, that particular story, you know, I will tell you, Kylie, I think you and I've talked about this, there's so many lessons that I've learned through life, and some of them came from Jack just by talking in the hallway. And that's something I think everybody has to remember is that there are little things and seeds you can put out for a person and you have the tough hard conversations. But they can be meaning for a lifetime. And I was lucky enough as well to experience several those from Jack and just several other leaders from SRC that I've had. This one particular story that is, it's stuck with me my entire life, was you know, Great Game was, uh, trying to decide if it was a company. We knew people wanted to come in and see us and we thought, well, we should have, let's just bring them all back in a room, and we'll call it a worth seminar at the time. And let's just see, tell them what we do. And so it was starting to form as a company because we're like, well, maybe people would actually pay to come see us, you know, and so we started doing that. And I was getting a little overwhelmed because we had a lot of stuff going on, people we were talking to, trying to coordinate everything. And I really felt we needed to hire another person. And so at that time, I was in the same office where Jack is and he was the he was the head person over great game. And so I went into his office and I was like Jack I really, really need some help. And I really need to hire a person. I was just wondering if we could talk about that so that I could make that hire. And he spun around pretty much in a circle. And in a little bit of a very motivational way. He just was like, why are you asking me that question? And he goes, why do I have to be the person here that's accountable? Why do I have to be the one that says that it's okay for you to hire a person? When my mind I thought he was the boss, I thought that would be the appropriate thing to do. And he goes, Do you think Great Game is a thriving enough business that we can, you could commit to this person for the rest of their lives, as long as they're doing their job for them and their family? I remember him saying, if we hire them. And I was like, wow, you know, and he goes, if you can do that, you have everything you need Charlotte, you go back and look at your numbers, you have the data to make the same decision that I did. That I could make. You go decide that. And I'm like, okay, so I walked out of his office, walked down and sat at my desk, and I thought, wow, what just happened? Because I was used to thinking that you would just go ask someone permission for something like that. So I sat down, and I did look at our numbers. And I looked at where I thought we might grow within the next year, what that would be, what's that going to mean, as far as a commitment to bring on another person? And I just told myself, I'm like Charlotte, you know, you have the numbers to do this. You just have to have the courage to make it happen. And you got to believe.

Kylie Jackson 06:25

You're brave and strong.

Lauren Haley 06:26

Yeah, brave and strong.

Charlotte Eckley 06:27

Like Lolo, and yes, and that's really kind of what it was, because at that moment, he made me realize, that was a bigger decision than I intended it to be. So, then I decided I'm doing it. And so then there's a couple days later, so I don't know I'm walking down the hall, and someone's walking behind me. And it just happens to be Jack, I hear a voice say, so did you do it? And I said, walking forward? I just said, Yes, I did. And he said, That's an awesome responsibility, wasn't it? And I'm like, yeah, it is. And you know, what I said, and what I wrote, and I didn't even think about it, honestly, till I wrote that, is I said, from that moment on, my "why" to come to work every day wasn't just about me. And I didn't even realize that you guys until I wrote that. And I realized my whole life, I've always been very careful about hiring, I was just sitting here at logistics needing to hire somebody. And I was like, Wow, do we really do this? Or not? Do we really need this? This is a huge commitment we're making. And we need to realize that. And you take it for granted sometimes. So I need a person, let's hire them. But it's much, much bigger than that.

Kylie Jackson 07:37

I love, I love the phrase, "awesome responsibilities," but it kind of makes me choke up every time because it's just a beautiful gift that you're able to give somebody. Something Oh, you know, it's a, it's like, the reason why we're really talking about this is because of the panic economy. We're calling it the panic economy, really. And that's kind of our theme for this month. But with so many uncertainties, people freak out, and, you know, trying to cut costs, trying to be penny wise. And we just urge all companies to not use layoffs as the first choice. There's so many other ways for you to, to save your company or to prepare for a downturn.

Lauren Haley 08:15

Yeah, well, and at SRC, we're lucky enough to have different divisions that we can scooch people around, for instance, you got snagged from the Great Game, which we're still mad about.

Kylie Jackson 08:26

She got scooched.

Lauren Haley 08:27

She got scooched. We can scooch, scooch up. Elevated. That's right, but we can scooch people around because we have enough diversity in our offerings in our different divisions. Right, we have some protection against that. So we're able to do that. That's a smart way to do it, I think.

Kylie Jackson 08:44

Yeah. And you were always preparing us. I mean, so for people who aren't familiar, you were, you had, you had our jobs, basically. And you. I mean, you prepared us, you prepared me, I didn't even work directly under you, and you prepared me in so many different ways. And you still are, I just like, you know, I love talking to you at all times about, um, just you motivate me. And I just am so blessed to, we're so blessed.

Lauren Haley 09:11

I got two years of direct Charlotte.

Charlotte Eckley 09:13

Oh, you guys. Lauren.

Lauren Haley 09:14

I mean it.

Kylie Jackson 09:16

Just a group, a little group hug.

Charlotte Eckley 09:18

Well, you know, I want to tell you another little story that just happened to me this week. I had, I was working with the frontline group, I've been bringing in my groups and talking to them about our company, what, you know, some of them are new. And what we do is we introduce them to the company, the next time we meet we talk about why we're here. You know, we always talk about the why. Because when we have purpose that makes a big difference in how we approach our day, and everything becomes a drag, I tell them you know. And if you can at least focus for a moment, and think, oh I do have a "why" for being here besides a paycheck. And I have a why because I need to support my family, and why do you need to support your family, because I don't want them to be on the street, or why don't you want them to be on the street? Well, then my mom's not going to be proud of me right, or something So we were talking through that, and one of the employees stood up, to tell, to talk about their why. And they're, believe it or not, it was when he was a child, he was in, he was like 14, I think it was. His mother worked for one of the SRC companies at the time, it was called Avatar, and it was up in Marshfield, Missouri. And he talked about how she worked there for several years. And all the sudden we decided, that's only for those who wouldn't know, that's just about 20-30 minutes from Springfield. And they decided to consolidate the company of Avatar into a Springfield company. When his mom first came home, he remembers it vividly as a child, that she was just like, oh my gosh, we've heard they're going to move it to Springfield, I'm going to be out of a job. What am I going to do? She was in this panic. And he just remembers that so vividly. And then he remembers a few days later, she came in and she said, SRC is taking care of all of us. They're bringing all of us to this other location. You guys were just talking about that. And they offered us all a job at CNH reman, one of our other subsidiaries here in Springfield. And so he just remembered that commitment that he felt the company had to her. And so he's carrying on that legacy. And that was part of his why, why he's here because that's the kind of company he wanted to belong to. Was the kind of company his mom worked for. I just thought that was so cool. And it just popped up out of a meeting. Right?

Kylie Jackson 11:15

Well, that's so funny that you said that because we just went to Chicago, Lalo and I went up to Chicago, and we got to go see Tasty Catering. And, and first of all, Kevin was just showing us all around, and his connection within his community. And coach Kevin, coach Kevin Walter, but we were talking about it within Tasty Catering, there's multi generations. And then with his nephew, he had like a motorsports place. One of his, a guy from tasty's son works over there. And we tell that story about SRC, like be careful what you say about somebody because somebody related is right behind you.

Charlotte Eckley 11:50

Yeah right. Right.

Kylie Jackson 11:52

But it speaks so, like volumes for your company, when you want the people you care about the most to also experience something like this.

Charlotte Eckley 12:01

Exactly, exactly. There's something there, you know?

Kylie Jackson 12:06

What do you look for whenever you're trying to hire somebody for life? I mean, you said it's, it's awesome responsibility, but...

Lauren Haley 12:11

It's also a commitment to them too. What do you look for? Yeah.

Charlotte Eckley 12:14

You know, we had that conversation too. We were looking, wanting to hire somebody, and we wanted to have very specific skills for this person. But I was exploring how much we could train those specific skills, because I would much rather hire the person that I know is committed. I think when you see someone who is committed to family, you see someone who is committed to community in their life. Even if they were committed to a sports team, you know what I mean? Like I was in sports, I knew what it was to be on a team and I went from one season and I finished the whole season. It tells you they have commitment about them, that they have those values of sticking it out for the team. And I think those definitely stick out for me. I remember there was a girl one time I wasn't, she was really quiet. And, and she was on our team. And I just didn't know if she ever, what potential she had. And I remember we went out on this little golf outing, and we were actually just driving the cart around, and we pull up and all of a sudden this girl's going, "you're the man, you're the man," and she's yelling out the cart and everything. And I was like, what's going on? Well guess what, I saw this competitive spirit in her. And I'm like, we need to tap into that at work. Because I didn't see that in the office. And from that moment on, we focused on that, because I wanted that same spirit. So you just, you're just looking for that type of competitive spirit, commitment, all of that. That is way more important. Even on a specific skill, you might be able to bring an expert in to train that person if you think they have the right mindset for that job.

Kylie Jackson 13:37

Yeah.

Lauren Haley 13:37

and I love that.

Kylie Jackson 13:38

Yeah, I know. And we were like, the scooching around, you know, we've done that within our own organization. We just said, you know, you got scooched, but also just, right at that same time, we all like our entire organization, just kind of blew up and scattered around in a good way.

Charlotte Eckley 13:53

Yeah, that's right.

Kylie Jackson 13:55

And, you know, some things, like we just saw us all soar in different avenues. And it was a very methodical process by Darin, our president, but he, you know, made sure we'd all taken Gallup polls. And whenever we were like, okay, maybe someone's not, just because they're not excelling in the position that they're in doesn't mean they won't excel at all. And just kind of figuring out where we can shift and fit together. It's kind of...

Charlotte Eckley 14:21

And I think that's another thing when you're worrying about layoffs, or anything like that, that you were talking about, is if you can find out those other skills, that you could tap into in a person, or, you know, I don't want to lose this person, and I do have a hole over here. Maybe they could fulfill that. But maybe I just have to invest in a little bit of training for that person, or something like that. Because, if you could hold on to that person. You're just, it's just you gain so much, you gain so much from that. Well, we've got Lolo on a podcast right now because somebody invested in her training.

Kylie Jackson 14:54

Talk about that, Lolo.

Charlotte Eckley 14:56

Right.

Lauren Haley 14:58

Well and I'm grateful I mean, from the perspective of someone who's straight out of college, I'm like, I don't have a ton of, two internships, but I don't have a ton of experience. I hope someone chooses me. Please, I have, I'm willing to learn, I'm willing to try.

Kylie Jackson 15:11

Well I'm into theatre, nobody wants to hear from me for business. I hear you.

Lauren Haley 15:14

I was like, I'm willing to put in the work to learn. I hope someone would see, that is exactly, I'm so grateful someone would see some potential in me without the experience and 10 years of work experience doing X, Y, and Z. So, and yes, and she she made me go to Dale Carnegie, love those guys. I'll give him a shout out. I learned so much because she was willing to put me through a training that would help me enhance my skills that I needed to work on.

Kylie Jackson 15:41

Yeah. And it would be a shame to not share this sunshine with the entire world. Just because she gets a little nervy.

Charlotte Eckley 15:48

And you know, Lauren was, Lolo, was one of those that when I, the initial interview, I can remember it like it was yesterday, as you sat there in that chair. And during that interview, and what I heard in that interview from you was that, it was what stands out the most to me, was how committed you were to the internship that you had done. And there was the boss you had at that time, and you wanted to do everything you could to make sure she had the tools she had to get her job done the easiest she could. She was very, very specific about that. She really brought that out that I knew that she was part of wanting to make that team the best they could be. That's what stood out about me. And that's when I walked out the door, and I said, yeah, it's a deal. We're doing this one, you know?

Lauren Haley 16:29

Thank god. I thank God every day.

Kylie Jackson 16:30

I do too. I do too. I think we were talking about her, um, what were we talking about, your star sign or something? And we were reading like what the qualities were. And one was just willing to work on anything, even if it was a scary thing. It wasn't, do you remember? I don't know, it was after a glass of wine. But we're talking about it, and I was like that is totally you because you're like, Oh, I'm scared, but I'll try, and like, I don't know, I don't know how I convinced you to do this with me.

Charlotte Eckley 16:57

Okay, so, let's tap into that for a second. Because that reminds me of what we're talking about, too, is that when a company is in a downturn, or when a company is not doing well, that is the time to tap into those people because instead of laying them off, they will come up with ideas. I saw a team one time that was trying so hard, instead of laying people off to save costs, that they all were out there mowing the yard at the company, and trimming the bushes.

Kylie Jackson 17:25

Oh my gosh.

Charlotte Eckley 17:25

So they didn't have to pay someone to do it. But it was a way to save their own jobs. You know, and it was heartfelt when you saw that because people will do amazing things. So to me, people are the last thing you cut. But you know what, can we cut a different type of coffee? Bring your own coffee in every day. Can we, there's so many things you can cut when you get into those situations. It doesn't have to be people. And if you, people think if they tell them that they're going to be scared. Like let's say a Lolo there, she's going to be scared, she's going to run. But sometimes those people you tell them that and they do the opposite. And they will come up with the most creative ways to go the other direction.

Kylie Jackson 18:01

Dave was talking about that, too. He was saying, you know, instead of just laying people off, why don't you ask, because maybe the people who are doing well off aren't fighting to put food in their own mouth, maybe they would be willing to cut back their hours. And maybe they would, just, just to save the 10 people that would be cut lately?

Lauren Haley 18:21

Yeah, we were talking about, just before this, and we have a snippet of what's coming down the road, with Dave, and the discussion we're going to have in our roundtable. We're giving you a sneak peek, but the damage that it takes on your people to do something as drastic as, like, layoffs, is the topic we're gonna talk about one of them. And the damage done versus the money saved. Right in the long-term. And we were talking about this with you, Charlotte a moment ago, of the long-term versus the short, and there's a panic in the people right now. Gas is going up, expenses going up, with food and whatnot. Can you tell that story of kind of the balance between long-term and short-term, with wage increases, and trying to balance the people panic, too, is something we're fighting now?

Charlotte Eckley 18:21

Absolutely.

Kylie Jackson 19:12

Through education too. Yeah.

Charlotte Eckley 19:14

Right. Well, I think you know, you've been talking about Dave and I will say, Dave taught me something. And it was a very simple statement he made, but it stuck with me as well. And he said that you have to teach people to think. And that doesn't mean, it could sound condescending if you heard it the wrong way. But when you really look at it, it's not about just providing all this information to people, but teaching them how to use it, and how to think. And that goes, that goes back to kind of what, I think you and I might have been talking about this earlier was, we have a situation here where employees are asking for more money because everybody in town, you can go work at McDonald's for this amount of money, or you can go work here or there. And our jobs are hard because we're handling core products, which is, used engines and things like that, they're dirty and stuff like that. So, would I rather go work at McDonald's, or would I rather go handle this dirty core, you know? And so, it's very competitive, and wages are going up, and people are asking for that. And I'm going okay, we do need to maybe raise our, raise our base wage, because it does need to at least have, we don't want people in poverty, we want to know they can at least pay their bills, right? That's what you would hope for. But I also want the employees to be educated and understand what that means. Because somebody's sitting here thinking I want $1 more an hour. And when we give $1 more an hour to everybody over a whole year period of time, what does that mean? $1.18 over the entire company could be close to up to $400,000 for the year that we could be paying. So, then they go, wow, I didn't realize that, you know? Then we talk about other incentives and other benefits we pay for, and that we have to have, and you're just teaching them what it means to a bottom line, and help them understand why you're pausing to make the decision. It's not because I don't want to pay you personally, it isn't personal to you at all. But it's about the big picture of all of us. And do you want job security and stability? Or do you want the pay? The one thing I was always taught, which I keep sounding like I've been around forever, right? That we've always said at SRC, is we don't want to be the highest paying in town, and we don't want to be the lowest paying. We want to be a good, competitive wage that is sustainable for our family. Because we have all of these benefits we want you to have as well. Some of our employees don't realize they need those benefits. But I was also in another meeting with them, a frontline group. And one gentleman stood up that had been here for 15 years. And he goes when I was your alls age, the young who have been there, I didn't really care anything about this ESOP or retirement or anything, but now I stand here and I get my statement, my stock statement. And he goes, and I'm really glad that someone made me stay here, and made me realize what I have. But I sure didn't think about it when I was your age either. And so anyway, there's just a lot of things like that where you're, it's, it's education. I think you said that Kylie, but it's about teach people the big picture. You know, another saying, I'm full of these, is with every set of hands, you get a free brain, why not use it? These people are smart enough to understand it if you'll sit down and explain it to him. They just want to know why. Why did you pause and not give me a raise? Why did you do this? Just explain it to me? And don't assume that I can't understand it?

Kylie Jackson 22:20

Yes, well, I think the dots are there. And it was it's kind of funny, because it's going to go with the blog that's tied to all of this as well, that was written by Jack. And it. What I love about this blog that's coming out, is it kind of does teach you how to think and that you really don't have to go that far outside of your your own resources. And it starts with what he learned from a bass fishing guide. Okay, well, we all know that he loves to bass fish. So it's not like he had to go that far out of his own realm to just talk to somebody and realize, oh, there's a shortage here. And there's a, there's a growth here, and what that might mean, and the way the blog is written, it kind of connects those dots for you, that you're like, I didn't think it would be that obvious. But it is. Like when gas prices raise, what does that mean for everything? Well, transportation is going to be more, and all these different things. I didn't realize how much that all flows. And then, when you're hiring for life, it's the same thing. It's an education, where you're saying, if I'm gonna hire you for life, I want to be sustainable and give you a job for life. And this is what this means,

Charlotte Eckley 23:23

Yes. But it definitely makes you pause, and just don't, don't hire on a whim, you know, make sure that you really need that position. That you can't combine two positions, or more than one person could do it. Don't take it lightly, and then it makes you, don't, you know, be the highest paying person in town so that you can afford to keep those employees when things go down. You know?

Kylie Jackson 23:45

And I think what's crazy, that's happening, is because there was such growth, that people hired to fire later. And that just makes my heart heart so bad.

Charlotte Eckley 23:53

Yes.

Kylie Jackson 23:54

And, you know, Nick was, Nick Greer, who has been helping out with our intercompany education, was talking about how you know, sometimes like, work's still work. It's the people around you. So, you like, it's not just the responsibility of you, the one that's hiring, but it's the responsibility of like, me, to make sure that you're having a good time, and your responsibility to me to make sure that we're like, you know, it's something more, we're part of something a little bigger, and it's not it's, it's a family. And if we put that responsibility on all of us, like we do with Great Game, everybody shares responsibility. It makes it that much, makes the culture that much stickier and that much more fun.

Charlotte Eckley 24:35

Yeah. And you know, another thing I think about. I feel like I have been, I've learned over the years, is managed growth, not crazy growth. Because crazy growth causes you to hire more people because you're going to have this big peak, and this big growth. But if you have managed growth, then you're not so crazy about all the hiring you're doing, but you're still growing, you're strong as a company, but you're not taking the big swings and stuff like that. I think that's something that I've really respected and learned about this company, is how every year we manage the growth we have.

Lauren Haley 25:09

Well, do we want to continue on? Or, do we have anything else to catch up while we're together as a family?

Charlotte Eckley 25:14

This was so fun talking to you guys. I miss you so much, and this has been fun, so it wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

Kylie Jackson 25:20

Right. Well, you know what I actually really wanted to do, but I didn't know if we had time because you're so busy these days.

Lauren Haley 25:27

Yeah, she's in high demand.

Kylie Jackson 25:27

Yeah, you're in high demand. But I think one day we want to call this segment of us just chatting. We want to do it around a glass of wine or something and call it second shift.

Charlotte Eckley 25:37

Oh, that's fun!

Kylie Jackson 25:37

Because you were saying, and it was inspired by you. I mean, second shift, is and I think it's important for us to explain this story for everyone just in case we ever do call it second shift. Yeah, but it's an SRC thing. It's when after work you go and grab a beer, or you go, it would be a dive bar generally, right?

Charlotte Eckley 25:56

Yeah.

Kylie Jackson 25:57

And you said you learned the most from those, from those moments where you would just sit around and you're not doing your day-to-day.

Lauren Haley 26:04

Informal

Kylie Jackson 26:05

Yeah.

Lauren Haley 26:06

Sometimes the best learning.

Charlotte Eckley 26:07

That's the best side. Informal learning is a great way to say that, Lolo.

Kylie Jackson 26:11

Yeah, Lolo. Lolo coined the term informal learning. Um, well, next time we're going to do this around a glass of wine then.

Charlotte Eckley 26:20

That sounds wonderful to me.

Kylie Jackson 26:22

This ain't the last time we're having you on, Char-latte. Well, we love you very much.

Charlotte Eckley 26:33

All right. Love you too. Have a great weekend!

Kylie Jackson 26:35

Thank you. You too.

Charlotte Eckley 26:37

All right, thanks. Bye.

Announcer 26:39

The Change the Game Podcast is produced by The Great Game of Business. To learn more, visit greatgame.com